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Episode 96

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Published on:

8th Sep 2025

WELCOME TO OUR KITCHEN: We're talking about ketchup!

Ketchup. We all know what it is. But do we? It's not a thing. It's actually a category.

Where's the word come from? How was it originally used? When was the first ketchup recipe? How has it become the condiment we know today?

We're Bruce Weinstein & Mark Scarbrough, authors of over three dozen cookbooks. This podcast is about our major passion in life: food and cooking.

If you'd like to check out our latest cookbook, COLD CANNING, please click here.

[00:55] Our one-minute cooking tip: Click on "like" for any online content you in fact like.

[02:18] All about ketchup! Where'd it come from? Where's the word come from? It's not a thing. It's a category of things. How'd it get to be the stick, thick tomato sauce we know today?

[22:02] What’s making us happy in food this week: Sichuan fish stew and Chinese food demystified!

Transcript
bruce:

Hey, I am Bruce Weinstein and this is the podcast

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Cooking with Bruce and Mark.

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mark: And I'm Mark Scarborough, and

together with Bruce, my husband,

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we've written three seven cookbooks

and I currently have a cold.

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So if you hear me sniffling, you'll

know exactly what's going on.

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It hit me last night right after dinner.

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It's like my nose stopped up and

I started sneezing uncontrollably.

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Well, anyway, a bad cold,

uh, but otherwise I'm okay.

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So this is our podcast

about food and cooking our.

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Passions.

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I don't know what our, our,

the way we pay our mortgage.

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I don't know.

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What is it?

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Something like that.

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We have a one minute cooking tip,

which is really not about cooking

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as you'll see, but kind of, and then

we're gonna talk all about the ketchup.

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Mm-hmm.

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Something that you may not know it's

history, where it comes from, even the

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weird way, the word formed ketchup.

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And we'll tell you what's making

us happy in food this week.

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So let's get started.

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bruce: Our one minute cooking tip

support, food and recipe content creators.

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mark: And I just wanna say, I'm gonna

interrupt Bruce for a second before

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he says what he's ever, he's gonna say

next is, uh, we're not talking about us.

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I mean, yes.

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Thank you for being here.

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bruce: You are supporting us.

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Just we're listening.

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But I know,

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mark: but this is not a comment about

support food and recipe content creators.

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This isn't necessarily about us.

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This is about what happens

when you're on your phone.

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bruce: Yeah.

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Don't scroll, stop scrolling.

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Like.

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Better and subscribe.

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The media landscape is getting more and

more fragmented, and it's important to

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support the food and recipe creators

that you follow, whose recipes you

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use, the people you admire, right?

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Because if you don't support

them, they're gonna go away,

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mark: right?

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You,

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bruce: it,

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mark: it's really crucial as you're

scrolling, as you're sitting, the

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air scrolling over your phone, and

you come across your content just

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like it if you even like some of it.

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Just like it.

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Or if you really wanna go crazy,

subscribe to their channels, Bruce.

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Yeah.

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I subscribe

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bruce: to a whole bunch

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mark: and you'll see more and you'll

help support these people who are the

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new kind of, uh, wave of recipe creation.

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Mm-hmm.

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The content creators.

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Mm-hmm.

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So not really about cooking, but

about helping people who in fact

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are trying to make cooking better.

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Alright.

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Before we get to the big part of this

podcast, let us say that of course, you

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can support us by in fact, subscribing to

this podcast and writing a review of this.

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Podcast and all those kind of things.

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We've already, uh, basically done that.

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So let's just get on to ketchup.

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bruce: What is ketchup?

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It's obvious, isn't it?

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It comes in those little foil packets

or plastic packets at McDonald's.

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Oh, it does.

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It does.

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I thought it came in bottles.

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It comes in bottles at home.

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It's always sitting on

the tables and diners.

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You put it on everything from

eggs to burgers to french fries.

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Wait,

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mark: what?

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You put it on what?

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bruce: Scrambled eggs.

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Oh.

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I grew up eating ketchup on eggs.

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My grandfather put ketchup on

everything and I learned from

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him everything, everything.

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Every,

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mark: your grandmother, who knows

what happened back there in the ettl.

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Oh, oh, oh my God.

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Um, alright.

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Uh, so, uh, yeah, sure.

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No, not eggs.

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That's disgusting.

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Mm-hmm.

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It's good on eggs.

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No gross.

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But.

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Let's first say something

about the name of this thing.

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Ketchup.

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Yeah, of course.

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You probably know ketchup.

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It can be spelled Kaupp.

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K-S-E-A-T-S-U-P.

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It's still pronounced ketchup,

no matter which way you spell it.

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bruce: Growing up, what my grandparents

had and they refrigerator was.

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Catsup.

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That was the big divide, right?

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There was Heinz ketchup and Hunts catsup

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mark: there.

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That's exactly right.

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But mostly catsup, which is still

pronounced ketchup was the term

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used for this sauce before 1900.

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By the mid 19 hundreds, 19 50, 19 60.

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It's becoming.

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Almost solely ketchup

with a K, not catsup.

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There was some holdover as

Bruces when we were kids, right?

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That was cat sup.

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But most of that has gone away and now

we see some uh, gen Z entrepreneurs

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of people who are making various

kinds of catsup spelling it.

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Yeah, cat sup.

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And I think they're trying to be

throwback and old school anyway,

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no matter which way you spell it.

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It's pronounced ketchup.

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So I should say.

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Where this word comes from

is really highly contested.

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Believe it or not, there are a

lot of people who fight over this.

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So let me just start.

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I'm gonna start.

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Mm-hmm.

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With Miriam Webster, which is

of course your friend, Miriam.

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Well, we start, no, my copy editor

for our books always corrects me

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about anything and says, well, our

friend Miriam says, and what she means

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by that is Miriam Webster defines

word, when was Miriam alive, but.

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Hundreds of years ago.

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So, uh, it's Daniel Webster and

Miriam, and anyway, it doesn't matter.

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It's now Miriam Webster.

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So the claim there is that it comes from a

melee word, which is basically ketchup up,

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or I'm nce, I'm sure I'm brutalizing it.

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Ketchup and it means soy sauce

or particularly savory sauce.

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And if you know anything about.

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Indonesian condiments.

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This word has stuck around.

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bruce: Yeah.

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And because the Indonesian sauce, that

is still called a ke cap, manis, and I

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know that's not the way you pronounce it.

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It's ketchup.

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Ketchup, manis mess doesn't resemble what

we consider in the West ketchup at all.

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No, it's not a tomato base.

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It's not that sweet and vinegary

thick tomato thing that I want.

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Oozing out of my hamburger bun

and sitting on my french fries.

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Oh, done.

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It's a, my god, almost a sweet

and thick soy sauce that catch

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mark: it.

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My ass.

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That was really too graphic for me.

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Oozing out.

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I, no, I just can't.

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If you put enough,

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bruce: it oozes out.

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Uh,

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mark: you know, when I was a

kid, uh, if we dared to put.

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Ketchup on a hamburger.

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My mother drew herself upright and

said, I reared you better than that,

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because that was just considered so low

class to put ketchup on a hamburger.

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I guess

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bruce: us Yankee, New York

liberals were just lower class.

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mark: You were lower class

from her Southern Heights.

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Anyway, legendary food writer,

Elizabeth David, and culinary historian

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Karen Hess, both claimed that the

word catchup is actually from.

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Arabic from an Arabic word

that means pickling in vinegar.

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Mm-hmm.

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And it shows up in French as

Es, and in Spanish as esche.

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Well, it kind of

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bruce: makes sense, right?

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mark: They claim that this is

the derivation of the word.

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And when it was anglicized that

E es first syllable was dropped

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because it was considered foreign

sounding and you ended up with.

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Kaveh or kave, which have slowly

morphed into what we now say is ketchup.

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bruce: That kind of makes sense to me.

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I mean, 'cause every kind of ketchup that

we're used to now, and we'll get to what

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kinds there are all have a vinegar base.

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Right.

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They all are some kind of

ly preserved something.

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Right.

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Right.

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So that kind of makes sense.

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And

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mark: I, yeah.

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Also, it's just for the sake of

completeness, Hey, there is a.

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Folk etymology, meaning it's not

documented, you can't prove it, but

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there's a folk etymology out of Cantonese.

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That dialect of Chinese, because

the word there used that is similar

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to ketchup means tomato sauce,

and it's actually derived from two

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Chinese characters, foreign eggplant.

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It was thought that the tomato

was considered a foreign.

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Eggplant and this word then kind of

fused of these two characters, and

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then it came to be tomato sauce.

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But there's very little evidence that

this is the actual derivation of word.

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Yeah.

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That

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bruce: I, I, I agree.

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That's probably not really based in

reality because there isn't anything in

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the Cantonese world that I know of, of.

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Course, there's a lot I don't know

about, but I'm pretty familiar

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with Chinese condiments and I don't

know of anything that is a tomato

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base in a condiment in China.

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Sweet potato base?

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Yes.

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And soy, but not tomato, tomato.

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mark: Okay.

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So that's where it comes from.

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Now, lemme tell you about how it first

makes its way into print in English.

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It first appears it is word

ketchup in the late 16 hundreds

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entities, not tomato base.

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Mm-hmm.

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It is mushroom based and the first

derivations and types of ketchup

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that come into print that we can

actually trace are mushroom sauces.

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One of the first published recipes is

from Eliza Smith's:

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house wipe, and she makes there in

the recipe a thin sauce of mushrooms.

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Anchovies and horseradish.

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bruce: That actually sounds really good.

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It also sounds like the base of a lot

of modern steak sauces, doesn't it?

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Well, it

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mark: is, and this is the

thing that you should know.

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A one steak sauce and other steak

sauces like that are probably much.

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Closer to the original notion of ketchup.

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Mm-hmm.

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Minus the sugar because A

one sticks mostly sweet.

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It is sweet, right.

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And if you just listen to me, mushrooms,

anchovies, and horseradish, there

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is absolutely nothing sweet in that.

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That is a powerful condiment.

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So it comes along basically as a really.

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Thick mushroom and fish reduction until

:

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US medical doctor and horticulturalist,

back in the day when you could be both

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at the same time, he actually published

a recipe for tomato-based ketchup.

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And I really wanted read you this

recipe 'cause it cracks me up.

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So here was me's recipe in 1812.

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Okay?

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Already I'm gonna make

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bruce: this so I'm gonna follow you.

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mark: Oh God.

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Please don't.

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Okay, so he mashes up a gallon.

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A gallon.

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I'm just telling you what it is.

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In the actual print.

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Mm-hmm.

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A gallon of chopped tomatoes.

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Yeah.

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bruce: Got it.

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No problem.

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mark: And he adds a pound of salt to it.

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bruce: Salty.

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mark: A pound to a gallon.

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bruce: Puffy.

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I'm gonna be puffy.

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mark: Right.

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So he mixes a pound of salt into a

gallon of mushed up tomatoes, and

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he lets that sit for three days.

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bruce: It's not even gonna

ferment this so much salt.

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It's gonna kill even the good bacteria.

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I don't know

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mark: exactly what he's doing here.

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I think he's pulling a lot

of the juice out, right?

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He's

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bruce: definitely getting

all the moisture out.

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mark: Okay.

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Then you're supposed to divide

that into courts and to.

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Each quart, you add a pound of anchovies.

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Mm-hmm.

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So a huge amount of anchovies.

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bruce: Is he adding filets of the

whole thing with the heads and guts?

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I think

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mark: it's filets, but I, I think so.

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Okay.

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Two ounces of mint shallots, and then,

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bruce: oh, only two ounces.

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God forbid it be too many shallots.

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mark: Ounce of ground black pepper.

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That's a lot.

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That's a couple

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bruce: tablespoons.

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That's

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mark: gonna be fiery.

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It's gonna be like

Vietnamese fiery pepper food.

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Mm-hmm.

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Okay.

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So you boil all that for 30

minutes and then you add all these

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spices, mace, all spiced ginger,

nutmeg, coriander, and kaile.

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bruce: Oh, that's that

red insect food coloring.

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Exactly.

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Except in

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mark: 1812 when James Meese writes

this, he means the insect illa.

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He put the whole insect in, which is the

derivative of the red food coloring dog.

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Yep.

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So you put a couple of those dead

insects in there to turn it red.

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Oh geez.

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They're dead.

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I guess so.

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So you pound it all together, you sve

it through a jelly bag, you ba bottle

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it, you cork it, and Meese claims

that it will last for seven years.

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What would

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bruce: a pound

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mark: of salt, it might, I

don't know, a pound of salt.

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It seems as if this is a

botulism nightmare to me.

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bruce: I don't think anything

can grow in a pound of salt.

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mark: Yeah, maybe.

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Okay.

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So then we we're gonna come

up into the late 18 hundreds.

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So you say, what happens to ketchup?

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bruce: Okay.

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So then by the late 18 hundreds, this

thin, runny, spiced tomato sauce that was

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salty and peppery and fishy, um, it, it.

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It's that way into the late 18 hundreds.

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We get to 1913 and now Webster's

Dictionary says it is a table sauce.

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mark: That means it comes to the

table, is not used in the kitchen.

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bruce: Ah.

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So it's, no, it's not an ingredient,

but it is now truly a condiment.

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Correct.

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Of tomatoes.

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Mushrooms, and.

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Walnuts.

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Yeah.

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I love that.

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Because walnuts, no

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mark: mushrooms have stuck around in this.

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Mm-hmm.

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bruce: I Well, but mushrooms are so

easily available, readily available.

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At that time they were free 'cause

you go out and harvest them.

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So mushrooms were a great ingredient

for big households, small households.

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And I love the idea of walnuts.

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'cause walnuts, when you pound them and

grind them, they give a thickness so they

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can thicken, they add an earthiness, they

add a great flavor, and they add some fat.

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What they're gonna do though

is they are going to add an

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ingredient that can turn rancid.

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So nothing is gonna last as long and it's

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mark: also gonna be grainy.

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Yep.

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There's no way.

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It's not gonna be grainy

with walnuts in you.

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bruce: No.

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'cause they didn't have a neutral bullet.

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mark: No, they did not

have a nutri bullet.

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But you notice that in all

this discussion about ketchup.

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We have never mentioned sugar ketchup.

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As a sauce, mushroom or tomato

baze was not sweetened until

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the early 20th century, and a

huge divide happens right here.

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While across the world,

it starts being sweetened.

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Many forms of ketchup, for

example, today Australian ketchup

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is far runnier than us ketchup.

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Annie is far less sweet.

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It's more sour.

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So there, there's a divide that

starts to develop between the thick.

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US condiment, Canadian condiment

and other parts of the world where

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it's a thinner, more sour sauce.

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Oh, so

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bruce: that fabulous 1980s,

uh, advertising campaign for

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Heinz Ketchup, would they used

anticipation, that song anticipation.

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Yes.

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Right.

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Where they couldn't get the

ketchup outta the bottle.

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They can't run that ad in Australia.

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mark: Well, I guess

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bruce: not.

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mark: So the initial industrial

production, uh, of ketchup.

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Involved sodium benzoate,

which is a pickling agent.

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You may know it if you ever pickle

foods or ever read labels, but

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sodium benzoate is thought to have

very adverse effects in humans.

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And in fact, the US Department of

Agriculture will ban the use of

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sodium benzoate as a preservative

in the early 19 hundreds.

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So now you gotta figure out how to

make this thing so shelf stable.

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bruce: Enter Henry Hines.

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Yeah.

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Right.

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Who's he would be very proud of his

company and his children and his

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great-great-great-great grandchildren.

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Yeah, because they are still making

ketchup after experimenting with

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vinegar and sugar ratios that would

allow his ketchup to become shelf

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mark: stable.

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And he is part of the wave of

the thickeners, the people who

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start to add pectin from jelly

making and preserve making.

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To make it thicker and thicker.

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And also we should say that pectin

also has a preserving function, as

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we know from cold, cold canning.

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Yeah.

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It has a preserving function.

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bruce: Yeah.

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But today we kind of, most ketchup

makers have gone away from the pectin

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and the way their ketchup is thickened,

it was just by using a blend of

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tomato concentrates, they often start

with tomato paste or even the double

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tomato paste, which is twice as thick.

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And yes, you have your vinegar,

you have your high fructose

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corn syrup or corn syrup, some.

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Only use sugar.

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And I have found even finds,

there are some, has a sugar

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only ketchup that's out there.

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Uh, they have spices, onion

powder, and preservatives.

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And of course they cook it so it

reduces even more and it concentrates.

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And then of course they

process it for shelf stability.

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And it can last in your pantry couple

years if you get a fresh bottle

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off the shelf in the supermarket.

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mark: And you'll notice

what Bruce just said there.

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There's no pectin in that mix.

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Yep.

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And here's the deal.

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Once more and more sugar was added,

and then once it flipped over

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to the high fructose corn syrup

and corn syrup additions in some

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types of ketchup, you didn't need

the pectin for thickness anymore.

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The sugar gave it mm-hmm.

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To it.

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In the same way that like you can make

blackberry preserves without adding pet.

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Thin and by just boiling it out in

the sugar and the natural pectin in

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the blackberries makes it thicker.

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Same idea.

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And the corn syrup is particularly,

makes it super thick as it boils down.

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It does.

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And that's part of the removal

of pectin from this process.

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bruce: And ketchup has gotten to a

point where it is kind of fetishized.

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I mean, there are so many

artisanal ketchups out there.

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Oh my God.

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mark: And some people, like

my sister-in-law will not eat

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anything but Heinz ketchup.

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I know.

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She won't even.

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Touch any other ketchup

except Heinz ketchup.

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bruce: I know.

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:

I'm surprised she doesn't

bring a bottle with her.

424

:

She does.

425

:

mark: She does.

426

:

I've seen her bring

bottles out to restaurants.

427

:

bruce: Remember that Seinfeld

episode where they try and bring

428

:

their own maple syrup and they're

not allowed to bring it in?

429

:

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

430

:

You can't bring outside condiments.

431

:

Well, so speaking of maple syrup, maple

syrup is at a point where it's grated.

432

:

Right?

433

:

You know what's in it.

434

:

Ketchup is the same way.

435

:

So you can get a GR of ketchup

called Fancy in the us.

436

:

In the us, in the us.

437

:

'cause the USDA is given that grade,

and if you see that word, fancy.

438

:

On ketchup.

439

:

It doesn't mean that it's fancy.

440

:

It means that there is a

higher concentration of

441

:

tomato to everything else.

442

:

Yeah.

443

:

Which is kind of nice.

444

:

I

445

:

mark: think.

446

:

I didn't, I know, I didn't know

that until I did the research for

447

:

this podcast episode because I've

seen fancy ketchup on bottles and I

448

:

didn't know that was a, that was a.

449

:

Actual governmental, I didn't know.

450

:

Degrade of ketchup.

451

:

So that's basically how what

we now know as ketchup happens.

452

:

But you should know that

there are lots of ketchup.

453

:

Mm-hmm.

454

:

Remember where this came from?

455

:

Mushroom sauces.

456

:

Yeah.

457

:

With anchovies.

458

:

So lots of ketchups.

459

:

And I just wanted to, um, maybe

mention a few, and these occur

460

:

actually in our book mm-hmm.

461

:

Called Canning.

462

:

And I thought I'd let Bruce

talk about them for a minute.

463

:

So talk for a minute

about curried ketchup.

464

:

bruce: Yeah.

465

:

So Curried ketchup is.

466

:

Is something that you find

very common in Germany.

467

:

Um, they eat curried ketchup

with, uh, sausages and avers.

468

:

You can, you can easily just mix a little

curry powder into standard ketchup,

469

:

but we give you a recipe for making a

curried ketchup, uh, from scratch, which

470

:

is, you know, you saute some onions and

garlic and curry powder and paprika, and

471

:

you have dried mustard and cloves and

all those spices that go into curries.

472

:

And of course, there's a canned

tomato puree instead of sugar, we

473

:

use honey, which is really nice.

474

:

A little vinegar, some wor here,

you boil that thickens and it's

475

:

really nice and it's nice to have

it on sausages or on french fries.

476

:

It's a nice change from

your standard ketchup.

477

:

Okay,

478

:

mark: let me talk to you.

479

:

Bruce is getting all excited about

the recipe as the chef always is.

480

:

So lemme talk to you about banana

catchup because that is actually in a

481

:

recipe in the book and we've actually

made that in demos promoting the book.

482

:

Yeah.

483

:

So what is Banana cast?

484

:

bruce: Well, it's a Filipino

condiment and in the Philippines.

485

:

There's a ketchup that's made from

bananas, and you know, in the tropics

486

:

you get bananas that are so much more

flavorable and sweeter than most of the

487

:

bananas we can get here in North America.

488

:

But still, and nonetheless, I tried

to create a banana ketchup that was

489

:

close to the bottles of Filipino

banana ketchup that I have eaten.

490

:

And again, it starts by sauteing onions.

491

:

And here you get red chilies.

492

:

So it's a spicy thing and you have ginger

and garlic and turmeric and all spicy.

493

:

It's a sweet, spicy sauce.

494

:

Island, you know, all those island kind of

spices and then very, very ripe bananas.

495

:

'cause you want that super

intense banana flavor.

496

:

That's, you know, bananas have to

be one step away from fermenting.

497

:

Yeah.

498

:

Then have perfect.

499

:

Yeah.

500

:

To be as, as I always

501

:

mark: say, these bananas are liquid.

502

:

Yeah.

503

:

They have to be, become

just basically kind liquid.

504

:

So.

505

:

Okay.

506

:

That's, uh, banana ketchup.

507

:

Curry ketchup.

508

:

Now we also have a recipe

for mushroom ketchup.

509

:

So what's

510

:

bruce: that?

511

:

So this one is really, dates back, as

you said, centuries and I try to, uh.

512

:

To recreate what that original

ketchup might've been like using.

513

:

And so it's very thin.

514

:

This is a much thinner, almost

like a steak sauce, ketchup.

515

:

And I put the, the mushrooms just plain

old button mushrooms in a food processor.

516

:

And really you want to chop

them really fine and you put

517

:

them into a pan, you add salt.

518

:

Not a pound of salt, but for a pound of

mushroom, it's just a tablespoon of salt.

519

:

And you let that sit.

520

:

You don't put it on a flame, you just put

the cover on the pan and set it aside.

521

:

At room temperature, 24 hours, what's

gonna happen is all that moisture is

522

:

going to leach out, and it's going

to become something unappealing at

523

:

that moment, but it's gonna change

because you're gonna add to that.

524

:

Malt vinegar and shallots and garlic and

brown sugar and thyme, and all spice and

525

:

cloves, and a little Worcester shear.

526

:

And you're going to cook that until it

is just fragrant and deep and complex.

527

:

Thicken it with a little corn starch,

and you will have something that's

528

:

not quite the old mushroom ketchup.

529

:

Not quite a steak sauce, but something

that is better than both combined.

530

:

mark: So we also have in the book

various fruit ketchups because there's

531

:

no reason if this is, uh, to use the

19th century word, a table sauce.

532

:

This table sauce.

533

:

You can have plum ketchup, you can

have blueberry Chipotle, ketchup.

534

:

We have all of those in the book.

535

:

Yeah, right.

536

:

We have all those in the book.

537

:

And really, honestly, all

these things are ketchups.

538

:

And in fact, as I already said to you,

steak sauce can be considered a ketchup.

539

:

Mm-hmm.

540

:

And we have a recipe for our mates.

541

:

Steak sauce.

542

:

What does it involve?

543

:

bruce: Well, I tried to model this

one on the classic A one, which

544

:

means we've gotta put in raisins,

we've gotta put in oranges, 'cause

545

:

those are definitely in there.

546

:

It is a sweet and sour balance of raisins

dates, uh, shallots, garlic chilies,

547

:

molasses or black treacle if you could

find it, which is a UK condiment that is

548

:

like molasses but thicker and more intense

549

:

mark: with, better with bite trickle.

550

:

Yeah,

551

:

bruce: there is some tomato paste

and vinegar, and here's the key, the

552

:

orange zest and tamarind concentrate.

553

:

For that sour and fruity edge.

554

:

mark: Right, right, right.

555

:

And it gets that very fruity stuff

from the tamarind concentrate

556

:

and that steak sauce like that.

557

:

That really classic steak sauce is in

fact, in the tradition of what ketchup is.

558

:

Yep.

559

:

Although most of us think of ketchup as

the red stuff that comes out of a bottle.

560

:

So that's our complete rundown of ketchup.

561

:

Anything else you wanna say about it?

562

:

bruce: Yes.

563

:

I'm gonna say try some ketchup.

564

:

Un scrambled eggs.

565

:

Oh, do not put it on fried eggs.

566

:

That's disgusting.

567

:

You don't wanna mix ketchup into the yo.

568

:

mark: Yeah.

569

:

Oh, there is such a.

570

:

Fine distinction between fried eggs

and scrambled eggs and ketchup.

571

:

But yeah.

572

:

Right.

573

:

Ketchup

574

:

bruce: omelet is amazing.

575

:

Oh

576

:

mark: my God.

577

:

So when I met Bruce, he also liked

something that is so New York to me.

578

:

It makes me barf.

579

:

And that is a jelly omelet.

580

:

Oh yeah.

581

:

Uh, that's disgusting.

582

:

Discu tell Jelly down

the middle of an omelet

583

:

bruce: Concord grape jelly

in the middle of your omelet.

584

:

Oh

585

:

mark: my

586

:

bruce: gosh.

587

:

My dad used to make that for me.

588

:

All right,

589

:

mark: well I'm glad you have

a good memory about jelly.

590

:

Disgusting omelets.

591

:

That's lovely.

592

:

Um, okay, that's all about that.

593

:

Just to be shamelessly self-promotional,

our new book is called Cold Kenny and

594

:

includes all of these recipes and.

595

:

400 and, I don't know, twin 15 more

recipes for these kind of things.

596

:

Condiments, preserves all in tiny,

small batches without the use of

597

:

any pressure or steam canner around.

598

:

So check out cold canning.

599

:

Okay.

600

:

As is traditional, the last

segment of this podcast, what's

601

:

making us happy in food This week,

602

:

bruce: I'm gonna tie mine back to

our one minute cooking tip, and I'm

603

:

gonna give a shout out to a food

content creator, um, in social media.

604

:

Where their stuff always makes me happy.

605

:

And that is Chinese food demystified.

606

:

They have a YouTube channel,

they have a newsletter.

607

:

Um, they have a Substack.

608

:

They, they're great and it's a

couple, um, she's Chinese and he's

609

:

Western, but he speaks fluent.

610

:

Many languages in Chinese and

others, and they live in Asia

611

:

and their recipes are amazing.

612

:

And my favorite one that you're probably

going to get in the next few days,

613

:

mark, is their Siwan beer, braised duck.

614

:

And he goes and step

by step how to make it.

615

:

And I love their stuff.

616

:

mark: I do too.

617

:

And I'm gonna speak about another

Sichuan dish, which we had for

618

:

dinner last night, which was.

619

:

Bruce makes this, uh, fish

dish, which is a soup, right?

620

:

Mm-hmm.

621

:

A little bit of a thickened soup with

preserved soured, mustard tubers.

622

:

Mm-hmm.

623

:

And we use, he uses, I don't do anything.

624

:

He uses ocean perch for it.

625

:

What else goes in there?

626

:

Uh,

627

:

bruce: fermented, urging to chilies.

628

:

mark: And, uh, lots of ginger

and, uh, Chuan peppercorn oil.

629

:

Mm-hmm.

630

:

Over the top of it is

really hot and numbing.

631

:

It's a really tasty soup.

632

:

In New England, we have switched to

fall, believe it or not, where we live.

633

:

It's cold.

634

:

It's gotten cold.

635

:

It was in the forties this

morning, so soup is on the table.

636

:

And last night we had an incredibly.

637

:

Sour Delicious fish soup that Bruce

made, again, from one of the Chinese

638

:

content creators that he follows.

639

:

Chinese food demystified.

640

:

There you go.

641

:

He got it from there.

642

:

Okay, that's the podcast for this week.

643

:

Thanks for being part

of this journey with us.

644

:

Uh, thanks for always making time for.

645

:

In your schedule

646

:

bruce: and while you're out there

scrolling and liking everything,

647

:

scroll around TikTok and find our

feed cooking with Bruce and Mark.

648

:

We're putting up tons of videos on

our TikTok channel, cooking with

649

:

Bruce and Mark, and unlike a lot of

other things which you may not know

650

:

are AI and they're not even real.

651

:

Ours is real, and it'll always be real.

652

:

No AI here on cooking with Bruce and Mark.

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About the Podcast

Cooking with Bruce and Mark
Fantastic recipes, culinary science, a little judgment, hysterical banter, love and laughs--you know, life.
Join us, Bruce Weinstein and Mark Scarbrough, for weekly episodes all about food, cooking, recipes, and maybe a little marital strife on air. After writing thirty-six cookbooks, we've got countless opinions and ideas on ingredients, recipes, the nature of the cookbook-writing business, and much more. If you've got a passion for food, we also hope to up your game once and a while and to make you laugh most of the time. Come along for the ride! There's plenty of room!

About your host

Profile picture for Mark Scarbrough

Mark Scarbrough

Former lit professor, current cookbook writer, creator of two podcasts, writer of thirty-five (and counting) cookbooks, author of one memoir (coming soon!), married to a chef (my cookbook co-writer, Bruce Weinstein), and with him, the owner of two collies, all in a very rural spot in New England. My life's full and I'm up for more challenges!